What about Duelund silver wire in silk/oil? anyone think it's worth 25.00 per foot?
Still, any atmospheric exposure would be detrimental to that purity. Even if insulated air can creep along the insulation metal interface and eventually corrode the metal. IIRC, Tara labs had a special paint to seal the insulation/metal interface at the termination in order to limits this creep along the insulation. The issue would be worse for the typical audiophile teflon insulation, since teflon does not stick t the copper (or silver).
All 6N wire starts off with an ingot in a vacuum sealed pouch (I contacted Nippon Mining and they confirmed this, and as a matter of fact was the only way they sold 6N copper). Once you break that seal it starts absorbing air immediately. Once you draw wire through mechanical dies, it is no longer 6N. If the company drawing the wire does not maintain special dies solely for the 6N copper and not draw them in a vacuum atmosphere, the drawing of regular copper and other metals will have contaminated those dies even further.
In other words, all claims of 6N wire is akin to McD's claims of 1/4 pound BEFORE cooking. The only manufacturers who may truly have a 6N final product are those companies which hot draws the wire in a vacuum atmosphere (Acoustic Zen and Harmonic Technology). Even those products are subject to deterioration by exposure to air prior to insulating.
One prominent wire manufacturer claims that the chief advantage of cryogenic treatment is that the cryo treatment literally shrinks the metal, thereby forcing out any atmospheric gasses imbedded in the metal from the drawing process or from the casting of the ingot (non 6N ingots). Typically you can raise regular electrolytic copper (3N pure) to OHFC (4N pure) by cryoing the wire. Even if starting from a 6N ingot, you would be hard pressed to arrive at 4N purity after mechanically drawing down the ingot. The ingot goes through too many dies in order to arrive at the final gauge.
YMMV, of course,
Stu
63 strand wire performs on the level of solid-core wire with no durability issues.
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/in-stock-nucleotide-v3-24awg-stranded-occ-copper/
Danacable used 600 strands of litz wire.
Gauge
From all I've read from various sources, I'd say 24-26 AWG, or 4x 28 AWG in a star-quad arrangement or some variation of the above. 18 AWG is speaker cable.
http://www.mundorf.com/en/?category=hifi&menu=audiocable_wires_plugs&content=mconnect_silvergold_wire http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/neotech-wire-cotton-braid-cu-c-296_175_183_284
Buy copper from neotech pretty much.
XLR
My cables are all balanced, so an outer ground wire and shield are added.
Vampire 800cb- a copper body RCA with direct gold plating
heat shrink tubing goes over texflex shealthing
I believe the keys to their full, clear, dynamic sound are;
- OCC solid core copper conductors,
- multiple strands of individually insulated 24awg wire, and
- the use of foamed polyethylene insulation.
I am not sure I could consistently pick it out when listening, but I have found that, in general, I like cables with PE insulation, and particularly foamed PE insulation, better than similar cables using Teflon insulation, although the foamed teflon used by VH Audio sounds quite nice.
I do have some of the oil impregnated silver ribbon Duelund wire here too, but haven't yet got around to making cables from it.
The Jupiter wire is better than bare wire in Teflon tubes, IMO.
If you are worried about oxidation, simply wrap the cable in Teflon tape before finishing it out. If you are really worried about oxidation at the connectors, either use small diameter, glue lined heat shrink on each individual termination, or use something like Qdope to cover the whole thing. It takes only a little effort to seal things up so air cannot get to the wire and well worth it for the quality of sound.
eichmann bullet plugs
- Keith Louis Eichmann's Bullet plug
- KLEI Harmony RCA plug
If I use copper wire now, I only use the silver plated copper, or Cardas enamel coated copper litz style wires, as these wires hermetically seal the copper during the drawing process.
For mostly air dielectric style interconnect wiring, I bet the Duelund silver ribbons in oil impregnated cotton sleeving are pretty good. Silver in sealed air tubes (teflon) can be pretty good as well, as the wire is in mostly an air dielectric, and the silver does not appear to oxidize if the ends are sealed.
XLPE
I don't really like cryo treated wire, myself. It seems to accentuate the highs and washout the colour and richness of the mids, although the cryo treated wire has more detail and resolution which is a similar affect to how silver wire can behave. I guess the cotton sheath may soften that affect a little but cryo treated wire is not my preferred cup of tea
my recipe was simple. Jupiter cotton/cryo 6N with Kapton tape. Kapton is an excellent dialectric.
these are the only ICs i use throughout my system. i dicked around with some other build/material methods
before i happend across this combo and i'm now done.
First, design: coaxial solid vs coaxial stranded vs twisted pair.
Second, material: copper vs silver vs silver coated copper
Third, electrical characteristics (as a function of the above): impedance, resistance, capacitance.
Fourth, insulation
Fifth, shielding vs non-shielded
6th: connectors - solder or high pressure crimp
kimber = vari-strand
Dave: However, I have recently found something I like even better... it's not as smooth sounding as the OFC copper in the Jupiter wire, but offers more detail and precision. I used the Neotech wire as the signal and 2 strands of gold plated OCC copper with enamel insulation for ground. Furutech plugs with OCC copper pins.
I don't agree with that, but I definitely hear a loss of detail/resolution when the total gauge goes well below 18.
marigo special sauce solder, requires pot.
15g interconnects tend to be bass heavy
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_cu_tef_sc.html#8671
https://www.audiyo.com/occ-6n-copper-wire.html
http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_copper_cot.html
For the most part, I favor building "hybrid cables". They use some combination of stranded wires + solid core wires. The wires are typically of different metallurgy. (copper+silver)
work bench
lighting
soldering station
dremel tool
files
miniature screw drivers
scalpels
razors
wire cutters and strippers
tweezers
magnifying glass
continuity testor
etc.
Then there are the supplies that you often wind up buying at several different vendors. Such as:
digikey sleeving
Texflex sheathing
Heat Shrink tubing
Teflon tubing
Teflon tape
connectors
solder
soldering wick
nylon cord
the raw bulk wire
cryo
etc.
To make your ICs, I would suggest starting out with the VH Audio fine silver wire recipe. You can use silver if you want but I would recommend using a high quality copper hook-up wire (VH Audio sells some OCC copper in their proprietary foamed teflon). Jupiter copper in cotton also sounds quite good in the 6/9s version. I like using 3/8ths inch diameter caulk backer for the core, or cotton rope if using cotton covered wire. If you are worried about corrosion of the copper in cotton wire, you can wrap a layer of teflon tape outside the wire to help reduce exposing the wire to oxygen and dampness. Connect the shield only to the source end and cover the whole thing in clean cut techflex. If making rca conductors I would use gold or rhodium Furutech connectors like the FP-108 or FP-110.
https://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-cryo-solid-copper-cotton-26-awg-p-1897
I read a lot on these forums and following "common wisdom," many of my first ICs were unshielded. However, even though I have dedicated power lines, a high quality power conditioner for front end gear, and keep my wiring pretty tidy, I have since found that I prefer using shielded ICs so I now make everything that way using high quality tinned copper braid sleving, and I try to space that away a bit from the internal pair wires. Since I make mostly balanced cables lately, I spiral a ground wire outside the shield in the opposite direction of the twist on the internal wires.
Opinions on insulation are all over the place. It used to be thought that teflon was tops, and most still think of it that way, but some believe teflon imparts a very slight unnaturalness to the sound compared to other materials such as polyethylene or especially natural materials such as cotton. Foamed teflon and foamed polyethylene are thought to be quite good. PVC is less used as a direct dielectric but is often used for jacket material. I personally like cotton or the foamed materials as a second choice. I have never heard silk although some, such as Duelund, use it.
Design: a twisted pair is generally superior sounding to a coaxial design - better focus. In addition, because a coaxial design has different wire and geometry characteristics for the positive and negative runs, it cannot be successfully used as a balanced connector.
With regards to twisted pairs, there are many ways to implement a twisted pair design by changing spacing, twists, shielding and more, and all those factors can affect the sound.
Other types of design include braided and spaced away pair (e.g., VH Audio Fine Silver IC's), as well as a sandwiched pair with flat conductors. Others have reported success with a spaced away pair in a flat orientation. I personally have had success with the VH Audio orientation where the two legs are wrapped around a core, and also some success with braided solid core wire.
https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/styles/content_body_image/public/neotech_nes_3002_internal_350_0.jpg?itok=2lCxeOkw https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cable-design
http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/
http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/contact/contact.html
http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php
http://www.neotechcable.com/product2_3.php
Common between
- vovox uses extra thick sold core conductors CC
- high purity polymers
- not shield
- furutech RCA connecctors with rhodium plated contacts
- crygenic treatment and conditioning
- CF-102 from Furutech
- vovox has huge gauge - does it correlate with a warmer sound?
- Au24 SX
- minimal jacketing
- higher quality XLPE dielectric
I have made speaker cables that use individually isolated 6N 26awg solid core copper in cotton wires in a star quad geometry (16awg aggregate to MF/HF and 11awg aggregate to LF) and they also sound great. I recently put the HT cables back in my system and noticed a small increase in richness and body but the cotton insulated wires seem to be slightly more natural and neutral in the midrange. Both have great bass with depth and slam but the HT cables offer just a bit more body that is helpful to my current computer audio set-up.
http://jupitercondenser.com/product/cotton-stranded-copper-cable/
https://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html
The only way I've found to do better than teflon or litz type wire, which is enamel coated, is to put a bare wire in a teflon tube and fill it with nitrogen gas to prevent corrosion.
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/comb-filtering
https://www.kvart-bolge.com/single-post/2015/07/13/Acoustic-Lobing-Explained
There are three companies licensed to produce cable conductors using Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) for audio and other applications:
- Furukawa Electric company of Japan whose trademark name for their version of OCC copper is PC-OCC (Perfect Copper by Ohno Continuous Casting). BTW: Furukawa and Furutech are not related. Although Furutech was one of the first companies to market OCC cables.
- Wan Lung of Taiwan manufactures cable using OCC copper AND silver for audio use and their trademark is UPOCC (Ultra Pure Ohno Continuous Casting).
- Sumitomo of Japan is the third company. However they do not supply the audio industry
Furukawa is the OEM supplier for Audience, Audioquest, Furutech, Oyaide, PS-Audio, and others.
Wan Lung is the OEM supplier for Acoustic Zen, Atlas Cables, DoubleHelix, Harmonic Technology, and others. Wan Lung also markets its own cables under the Neotech brand.
There are other known cable companies using OCC copper/silver (not sure who their OEM supplier is); Analysis Plus, MIT,Purist Audio Design, WireWorld,
Other than the UPOCC and PCOCC acronyms, many of the above companies further embellish their OCC conductors with names like Uni/Mono/Single/Zero/Solo Crystal and Perfect Surface Copper/Silver.
Cables made with OCC copper conductors typically cost more than cables made with OFC copper conductors. There is actually a legitimate reason for this. OFC copper is drawn through a cold mold and can be cast at a very high speed while OCC copper is drawn through a hot mold at a speed typically 1-5% of that of OFC required to obtain the very long grain crystal structure. Not sure of absolute speed for OFC casting, but for comparison paper mills run sheets at 60 miles/hour or more. With any product time is money so OCC is more expensive for the simple reason that manufacturing cost is significantly more and yields are less.
It doesn't necessarily explain the economics of $5000.00 cables but certainly explains why audio cables made with OCC copper would be more expensive than Blue Jeans Cable made with commodity Belden and Canare OFC copper.
http://audiosensibility.com/blog/
- wire gauge
- solid core/stranded conductors
- geometry (coaxial, two conductor with shield, star-quad, ...)
- type of dielectric (Teflon, foamed Teflon, polyethylene, polypropylene, ..)
- types of shielding (aluminum mylar, copper foil, bare copper, silver-plated copper, ..)
- outer jacket material (PVC, Teflon, synthetic rubber, ..)
- writing/logo to print on the jacket
- (optional) outer polyester sleeving
Cable markup is 8x. $4 for $50.
At the line level I've had excellent results with DIY ICs made with Parts Connexion's Connex/DH Labs BL-Ag balanced silver bulk cable.